From: "Fredrick Toben" <toben@toben.biz>
Date: July 20, 2011 8:59:20 PM EDT
To: "'Christian Lindtner'" <lindtner@dr.com>
Cc: <info@adelaideinstitute.org>, "'Michael'" <reporternotebook@gmail.com>
Subject: Teheran Holocaust Committe Member Christian Lindtner claims : 'Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration. … Denial is Chutzpah'.
Thank you for your quick reply, Christian.
1. My immediate response to your claim is, of course, joy because now we do have substantial evidence to prove that gassings occurred and that the three pillars of the Holocaust-Shoah narrative – 6 million, systematic extermination, homicidal gas chambers – is a proven physical fact.
2. But then I smile to myself when I read that you are relying on German scholarship and that your classical training enables you to discern, and to formulate: 'Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration. … My claim is serious: Denial is Chutzpah'.
3. Christian, I don't know what has happened to your perspective, whether you spent too much time trimming your cars and if this mindset of yours constitutes a recantation of your previously held belief. But it seems to me you have forgotten that all the research you rely upon is research done under legal duress.
4. It is not free research because it is illegal in Germany and elsewhere to say anything positive about the 1933-45 war years. I speak from experience, as do Stäglich, Rudolf, Zündel, Fröhlich, Honsik, Mahler, Stolz, et al, who can all attest to that pressure imposed on them with the force of legal persecution.
5. Your approach reminds me of the old scholastic argument about solving the universal and particular problem – how many angels fit on a pinhead?
6. I am sending this item through various lists and perhaps we can hear from you again – and perhaps you can enlighten me on how to overcome the legal barrier that prevents us from seeking the truth of the matter, without you so flippantly making a nonsense claim: Denial is Chutzpah.
Cheers
Fredrick Töben
From: Christian Lindtner [mailto:lindtner@dr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 21 July 2011 3:18 AM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Yes, Fredrick, I have now studied these and other books by the best German scholars for several years, and of course, I am certain that one can rely on their research. As a classical philologist, I recognize traditional German scholarship when it is at its best.
To claim that Leichenkeller 1 in Krema II was not a gas chamber is also a case of Chutzpah. As you are aware, Bischoff wrote to Kammler 29 Jan. 1943 that it was a Vergasungskeller, and the two engineers from Topf & Söhne (Karl Schultze and Fritz Sander, 17 Feb. 1943) called it a Gaskeller.
Irving, Butz, Faurisson have done what they could to argue that the Germans, who were there and had no reason to lie to one another, were wrong, even dishonest. Their suggestions about the Keller being for gassing cadavers (!) or about its being an air raid shelter are absolutely silly.
The lacking holes can also easily be explained: When Leichenkeller 1 was blown up, the holes, i.e. the edges of the holes, would have been the first to be blown away by the enormous pressure seeking to "escape".
Gassing here and in the other camps was simply a natural continuation of the euthanasia program, where, for sure, more than 70000 were gassed.
The evidence for gas vans is also convincingly established.
It is also chutzpah to say:" No holes, no Holocaust " - as if the shooting of millions of Jews had nothing to do with the Endlösung!
So, for these and many other easons, Fredrick, it is now my firm conviction that Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration.
It is a very very sad story - I do not need to remind YOU!
My claim is serious: Denial is Chutzpah.
See, if you have time, see also my presentation: Hitler´s Prophecy 1-7 on youtube.
Now we understand why Himmler said to the generals in Sonthofen, 21 June 1944:"Es ist gut, dass wir die Härte hatten, die Juden in unserem Bereich auszurotten", and he goes on the say that die Weiber und Kinder were also murdered....
Himmler was honest, and we have to be honest also.
Please feel free to use this letter as you may wish.
You may want to post it on your site!
Sincerely
Christian----- Original Message -----
From: Fredrick Toben
Sent: 07/20/11 02:43 PM
To: 'Christian Lindtner'
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Are you serious, Christian?
Fredrick
From: Christian Lindtner [mailto:lindtner@dr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 8:49 PM
To: Fredrick Toben
Cc: orphicus2008@gmail.com
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Dear Fredrick,
Yes, this is a very sad story.
I hope you will find the time to study the two huge books about the German Ordnungspolizei by Wolfgang Curilla (2006 & 2011). His admirable research is based on original German sources.
It can no longer be denied that more that 4.000.000 Jews were murdered by various units of German police etc.
Hence, the time has come to face the fact that Holocaust revisionism, or denial", is simply irresponsible CHUTZPAH.
Cui bono?
Best wishes
Christian Lindtner
----- Original Message -----
From: Fredrick Toben
Sent: 07/18/11 04:23 AM
To: 'Julie Chambers'
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Yes, thanks Julie, it's old stuff for me – but excellent to watch for those who are just getting into it -
- and to think Zündel then left Canada for the USA where he married Ingrid Rimland, then was extradited back to Canada for two years prison, then off to Germany where he spent 5 years in a German prison.
That's legal persecution.
Fredrick
From: Julie Chambers [mailto:orphicus2008@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 18 July 2011 10:22 AM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: Re: FW: That's for you
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Fredrick Toben <toben@toben.biz> wrote:
Thanks
From: Julie Chambers [mailto:orphicus2008@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 16 July 2011 11:39 PM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: Re: FW: That's for you
British Holocaust denier verdict upheld
Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:20PM
Error! Filename not specified.
British-born Roman Catholic Bishop, Richard Williamson
A German appeals court has upheld the guilty verdict of a British bishop who had been earlier convicted on charges of denying the Holocaust.
The Regensburg court on Monday confirmed a conviction issued against Richard Williamson last year for Holocaust denial, but decided to reduce his penalty from the original fine of EUR 10,000 to EUR 6,500 (USD 9,136), the Associated Press reported.
The 71-year-old bishop had stated in a 2008 interview with a Swedish TV station that he did not believe Jews lost their lives in gas chambers in the Nazi concentration camps during the Second World War.
Williamson's lawyers have not denied the statements made by him during the interview, but stressed that such views could be expressed freely in Sweden.
Holocaust denial is considered a crime in Germany.
In a similar case, Fredrick Toben, a graduate of Oxford's Exeter College and a German-born Australian author, was tried in Germany in 1999 for his revisionist views of the Holocaust and sentenced to seven months in prison.
MAB/HJL
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