Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
![]()
First Published inElie Wiesel Cons the World
How true to life is Wiesel's
description of Buchenwald in Night?
By Carolyn Yeager
Ken Waltzer wrote in his comment on this blog on June 27th:
"More important, Elie Wiesel's commentary in Night bears fairly close resemblance to the actual experiences he had at Buchenwald-as recorded in camp documents." (my italics)
What are we to make of the words "fairly close resemblance?" According to Waltzer-and
to Wiesel-Wiesel is writing down his own experience. "Every word is true!" Wiesel has said of his book Night. Thus it should exactly resemble the actual experience he had. I'm going to examine closely what is written in Night about Buchenwald to see if that
is the case.
It's not too difficult because the newest English edition of Night1-a new translation by wife Marion Wiesel which changes (corrects) some of the more blatant "boo-boos" found in the original 1960 edition-comprises only 115 pages. Of that, Wiesel's description of his time at Buchenwald begins on page 104, giving it only 11 pages (one page being blank).
Wiesel wrote a new preface for this new translation in which he tries to answer some of the more common criticisms of his book. His answer to the differences between the Yiddish And the World Remained Silent and Night is that he cut passages he thought might be superfluous ... or "too personal, too private, perhaps." Strange thing to say since he had already published it. Concerning Buchenwald, he quotes the original writing about the death of his father, where the club-wielder is called "an SS" three times! In Night, as you will see below, this person becomes simply "an officer." Naturally I ask: Did this scene even happen? Wiesel also tries to explain why he cut out from the ending so much of what was in the Yiddish version, but in doing so he leaves unmentioned an extensive part of what he cut. I have quoted these two endings in Shadowy Origins of Night, Part II.
Continue Reading
Donate via Pay Pal
Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust | PO box 439016 | San Ysidro | CA | 92143![]()
Jul 20, 2011
How true to life is Wiesel's description of Buchenwald in Night?
Teheran Holocaust Committe Member Christian Lindtner claims : ‘Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration. … Denial is Chutzpah’.
From: "Fredrick Toben" <toben@toben.biz>
Date: July 20, 2011 8:59:20 PM EDT
To: "'Christian Lindtner'" <lindtner@dr.com>
Cc: <info@adelaideinstitute.org>, "'Michael'" <reporternotebook@gmail.com>
Subject: Teheran Holocaust Committe Member Christian Lindtner claims : 'Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration. … Denial is Chutzpah'.
Thank you for your quick reply, Christian.
1. My immediate response to your claim is, of course, joy because now we do have substantial evidence to prove that gassings occurred and that the three pillars of the Holocaust-Shoah narrative – 6 million, systematic extermination, homicidal gas chambers – is a proven physical fact.
2. But then I smile to myself when I read that you are relying on German scholarship and that your classical training enables you to discern, and to formulate: 'Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration. … My claim is serious: Denial is Chutzpah'.
3. Christian, I don't know what has happened to your perspective, whether you spent too much time trimming your cars and if this mindset of yours constitutes a recantation of your previously held belief. But it seems to me you have forgotten that all the research you rely upon is research done under legal duress.
4. It is not free research because it is illegal in Germany and elsewhere to say anything positive about the 1933-45 war years. I speak from experience, as do Stäglich, Rudolf, Zündel, Fröhlich, Honsik, Mahler, Stolz, et al, who can all attest to that pressure imposed on them with the force of legal persecution.
5. Your approach reminds me of the old scholastic argument about solving the universal and particular problem – how many angels fit on a pinhead?
6. I am sending this item through various lists and perhaps we can hear from you again – and perhaps you can enlighten me on how to overcome the legal barrier that prevents us from seeking the truth of the matter, without you so flippantly making a nonsense claim: Denial is Chutzpah.
Cheers
Fredrick Töben
From: Christian Lindtner [mailto:lindtner@dr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 21 July 2011 3:18 AM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Yes, Fredrick, I have now studied these and other books by the best German scholars for several years, and of course, I am certain that one can rely on their research. As a classical philologist, I recognize traditional German scholarship when it is at its best.
To claim that Leichenkeller 1 in Krema II was not a gas chamber is also a case of Chutzpah. As you are aware, Bischoff wrote to Kammler 29 Jan. 1943 that it was a Vergasungskeller, and the two engineers from Topf & Söhne (Karl Schultze and Fritz Sander, 17 Feb. 1943) called it a Gaskeller.
Irving, Butz, Faurisson have done what they could to argue that the Germans, who were there and had no reason to lie to one another, were wrong, even dishonest. Their suggestions about the Keller being for gassing cadavers (!) or about its being an air raid shelter are absolutely silly.
The lacking holes can also easily be explained: When Leichenkeller 1 was blown up, the holes, i.e. the edges of the holes, would have been the first to be blown away by the enormous pressure seeking to "escape".
Gassing here and in the other camps was simply a natural continuation of the euthanasia program, where, for sure, more than 70000 were gassed.
The evidence for gas vans is also convincingly established.
It is also chutzpah to say:" No holes, no Holocaust " - as if the shooting of millions of Jews had nothing to do with the Endlösung!
So, for these and many other easons, Fredrick, it is now my firm conviction that Holocaust denial is a moral and intellectual aberration.
It is a very very sad story - I do not need to remind YOU!
My claim is serious: Denial is Chutzpah.
See, if you have time, see also my presentation: Hitler´s Prophecy 1-7 on youtube.
Now we understand why Himmler said to the generals in Sonthofen, 21 June 1944:"Es ist gut, dass wir die Härte hatten, die Juden in unserem Bereich auszurotten", and he goes on the say that die Weiber und Kinder were also murdered....
Himmler was honest, and we have to be honest also.
Please feel free to use this letter as you may wish.
You may want to post it on your site!
Sincerely
Christian----- Original Message -----
From: Fredrick Toben
Sent: 07/20/11 02:43 PM
To: 'Christian Lindtner'
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Are you serious, Christian?
Fredrick
From: Christian Lindtner [mailto:lindtner@dr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 8:49 PM
To: Fredrick Toben
Cc: orphicus2008@gmail.com
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Dear Fredrick,
Yes, this is a very sad story.
I hope you will find the time to study the two huge books about the German Ordnungspolizei by Wolfgang Curilla (2006 & 2011). His admirable research is based on original German sources.
It can no longer be denied that more that 4.000.000 Jews were murdered by various units of German police etc.
Hence, the time has come to face the fact that Holocaust revisionism, or denial", is simply irresponsible CHUTZPAH.
Cui bono?
Best wishes
Christian Lindtner
----- Original Message -----
From: Fredrick Toben
Sent: 07/18/11 04:23 AM
To: 'Julie Chambers'
Subject: RE: FW: That's for you - Germans and German Jews set up Israel's civil service - there was a German brain drain to Israel - Hitler father of Israel -
Yes, thanks Julie, it's old stuff for me – but excellent to watch for those who are just getting into it -
- and to think Zündel then left Canada for the USA where he married Ingrid Rimland, then was extradited back to Canada for two years prison, then off to Germany where he spent 5 years in a German prison.
That's legal persecution.
Fredrick
From: Julie Chambers [mailto:orphicus2008@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 18 July 2011 10:22 AM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: Re: FW: That's for you
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Fredrick Toben <toben@toben.biz> wrote:
Thanks
From: Julie Chambers [mailto:orphicus2008@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 16 July 2011 11:39 PM
To: Fredrick Toben
Subject: Re: FW: That's for you
British Holocaust denier verdict upheld
Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:20PM
Error! Filename not specified.
British-born Roman Catholic Bishop, Richard Williamson
A German appeals court has upheld the guilty verdict of a British bishop who had been earlier convicted on charges of denying the Holocaust.
The Regensburg court on Monday confirmed a conviction issued against Richard Williamson last year for Holocaust denial, but decided to reduce his penalty from the original fine of EUR 10,000 to EUR 6,500 (USD 9,136), the Associated Press reported.
The 71-year-old bishop had stated in a 2008 interview with a Swedish TV station that he did not believe Jews lost their lives in gas chambers in the Nazi concentration camps during the Second World War.
Williamson's lawyers have not denied the statements made by him during the interview, but stressed that such views could be expressed freely in Sweden.
Holocaust denial is considered a crime in Germany.
In a similar case, Fredrick Toben, a graduate of Oxford's Exeter College and a German-born Australian author, was tried in Germany in 1999 for his revisionist views of the Holocaust and sentenced to seven months in prison.
MAB/HJL
Related Stories:
· Polish Holocaust denier found dead
· UK Muslims viewing Gaza war as real Holocaust
· Israeli lies ... 9/11 and the Holocaust
· Iran: Holocaust excuse for genocide
· The French Government's hypocrisy, Islam and Holocaust revisionism (2)
· Holocaust revisionists and the hypocrisy of the French government
· Holocaust denier verdict approved
Fw: The contagious failing economy
Why I Left Mormonism - the Mormon Church
http://www.exmormon.org/whyileft.htm
+++
Fun stuff to read, tell and watch:
Now FREE to watch all 91 minutes: "Defamation," from Israeli filmmaker Yoav Shamir. LINK: http://tinyurl.com/3rvhdvc
Some of His Best Friends Are Jewish: The Saga of a Holocaust Revisionist By Nathaniel Popper. Link: http://tinyurl.com/3v6m88c
...an Israeli lawyer has filed a class-action lawsuit against former President Jimmy Carter, seeking $5 million in damages because his book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" allegedly defamed Israel. Link: http://tinyurl.com/3pltqg2
"...when you have laws against questioning the Holocaust narrative, you are screaming at the other person to stop thinking!!!" ---Mike Santomauro. *Anthony Lawson's Holocaust Video "were the Germans so stupid"... Link: http://tinyurl.com/44nsrco
An anti-Semite condemns people for being Jews, I am not an anti-Semite.--Mike Santomauro. Link: http://tinyurl.com/42z9p8o
Start reading DEBATING THE HOLOCAUST in under a minute: http://tinyurl.com/3f8h874
Peace.
Mike Santomauro
Editorial Director
ReporterNotebook@gmail.com
Call anytime: 917-974-6367
Letter from Israel: Of hate speech, boycotts and censorship - Guest Voices - The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/letter-from-israel-of-hate-speech-boycotts-and-censorship/2011/07/19/gIQArweBQI_blog.html
+++
Fun stuff to read, tell and watch:
Now FREE to watch all 91 minutes: "Defamation," from Israeli filmmaker Yoav Shamir. LINK: http://tinyurl.com/3rvhdvc
Some of His Best Friends Are Jewish: The Saga of a Holocaust Revisionist By Nathaniel Popper. Link: http://tinyurl.com/3v6m88c
...an Israeli lawyer has filed a class-action lawsuit against former President Jimmy Carter, seeking $5 million in damages because his book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" allegedly defamed Israel. Link: http://tinyurl.com/3pltqg2
"...when you have laws against questioning the Holocaust narrative, you are screaming at the other person to stop thinking!!!" ---Mike Santomauro. *Anthony Lawson's Holocaust Video "were the Germans so stupid"... Link: http://tinyurl.com/44nsrco
An anti-Semite condemns people for being Jews, I am not an anti-Semite.--Mike Santomauro. Link: http://tinyurl.com/42z9p8o
Start reading DEBATING THE HOLOCAUST in under a minute: http://tinyurl.com/3f8h874
Peace.
Mike Santomauro
Editorial Director
ReporterNotebook@gmail.com
Call anytime: 917-974-6367
Insane....
New Jersey rabbi accused in Jewish divorce kidnapping plot
TRENTON, July 18 (Reuters) - A New Jersey rabbi and his wife surrendered to authorities on Monday on charges of kidnapping an Israeli man and threatening to bury him alive if he did not agree to a traditional Jewish divorce.
For David Wax: Mitchell Ansell of Ansell Grimm & Aaron.
For Judy Wax: Steven Secare of Secare, Ryan & Hensel.
(Reporting by Bernd Debusmann Jr.; Additional reporting by Joseph Ax)
Jul 19, 2011
ISRAELI WHO DIED IN CHRISTCHURCH EARTHQUAKE MAY HAVE BEEN MOSSAD AGENT, PAPER CLAIMS
Israeli who died in Christchurch earthquake may have been Mossad agent, paper claims
From: NewsCore July 20, 2011 1:39PM
AN Israeli man who died in February's devastating Christchurch earthquake may have been part of a team of Israeli Mossad agents gathering secret information from New Zealand databases.
Three Israelis were among the 181 people who died when the 6.3-magnitude shock hit on February 22. One, Ofer Benyamin Mizrahi, 24, was found to be carrying at least five passports, according to The Southland Times.
The report claimed the police national computer system has been under investigation by the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service (SIS) since the earthquake, because of fears Israeli spies loaded software into the system that would allow access to intelligence files.
The report also highlighted a surge of top-level interest from Israel in the quake's aftermath.
Following the earthquake, Prime Minister John Key reportedly received four calls from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Soon after, Israel's civil defence chief traveled to Christchurch, while a complete Israeli urban search and rescue squad also scrambled to get there - at one stage being confronted by armed local police and forced out of a sealed-off section of the devastated city.
Three other Israelis, who had been travelling in a minivan with Mizrahi, were quickly evacuated back to Israel.
Prime Minister John Key refused to confirm details of an SIS investigation this morning, saying only that he was satisfied there had been no misuse of the police computer. Mr Key confirmed that a dead Israeli was found with multiple passports, but said that none of them were from New Zealand.
Asked if he had any reason to believe that Mossad agents had been active in Christchurch at the time of the earthquake, Mr Key told The New Zealand Herald, "I'm just not in a position to comment on those matters and I'm not going to. I don't think it is in the national interest to do so."
The New Zealand Herald reported that Israeli Ambassador Shemi Tzur had dismissed the allegations as "science fiction."
"These were youngsters holidaying in your beautiful country ... we encourage our young people to visit New Zealand," Mr Tzur said.
New Zealand police today issued a statement saying its computer systems and the information stored in them were secure.
Acting Chief Information Officer Murray Mitchell said, "These systems are regularly being updated and reviewed, and we are confident that our data and network were not compromised during the Christchurch Earthquake response or subsequently."
Political risk consultant Paul Buchanan, who has worked with intelligence officers in the US, told news website stuff.co.nz that he believed the four Israelis were probably on a "trolling mission" searching for identities they could steal.
"Because of New Zealand's international reputation the passports are extremely valuable for intelligence services," Mr Buchanan said.
"New Zealand has this reputation for independence and autonomy ... people trust New Zealand."
Related Coverage
- Quake tally hits 7500 since Christchurch NEWS.com.au, 1 day ago
- Another quake hits Christchurch The Daily Telegraph, 13 Jun 2011
- Christchurch earthquake The Australian, 13 Jun 2011
- New quake rocks Christchurch Courier Mail, 13 Jun 2011
- Decade to rebuild Christchurch Courier Mail, 3 Mar 2011

