James remarked: "Actually, the oldest historical claim that Hebrews (as a distinct people) have goes back to about 700 BC or so. Much of their history, like the captivity in Egypt, is a myth..."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Jewish claims regarding their "biblical" origins are manifest malarkey... but James's explanation needs some further comment.
Because numbers of Jews lived in Spain & Germany it does not follow that a genetic link with the indigenous people exists (for which there is no evidence) any more than the presence of large numbers of Blacks or Asians in America demonstrates a genetic connection between them and the European ethnic majority.
A very germane comment on Jewish origins was made by H. G. Wells, in his "Outline of History":
"There can be little doubt that the scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab tribes that were Jews in the time of Mohammed, and a Turkish people (Khazars) who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic. It is to the Phoenician contingent and to the Aramean accessions in Babylon that the financial and commercial traditions of the Jews is to be ascribed. But as a result of these coalescences and assimilations, almost everywhere in the towns throughout the Roman Empire, and far beyond it in the east, Jewish communities traded and flourished, and were kept in touch through the Bible, and through a religious and educational organization. The main part of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea.
-- H. G. Wells, The Outline of History, Book VI - Christianity and Islam. © 1920,1949
------------------------------------------------------
Prof. Roland B. Dixon, of Harvard, wrote in 1923, "The most important single factor, however, in the differentiation of the Asiatic borderland... was the conversion to Judaism in the eighth century of the Khazars. In these (Khazars)... we may in all probability see the origin of the great mass of the east European Jews of today."
------------------------------------------------------
Arthur Koestler wrote:
"The general picture that emerges from these fragmentary pieces of information is of a migration of Khazar tribes and communities into those regions of Eastern Europe - mainly Russia and Poland- where at the dawn of the Modern Age, the greatest concentrations of Jews were found. This has led several historians to conjecture that a substantial part, and perhaps the majority of eastern Jews - and hence of world Jewry - might be of Khazar and not of Semitic origin."
-- Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe (1976), pp. 15,16
------------------------------------------------------
Alfred Lilienthal wrote:
"That the Khazars are the lineal ancestors of Eastern European Jewry is an historical fact. Jewish historians and religious textbooks acknowledge the fact, though the propagandists of Jewish nationalism belittle it as pro-Arab propaganda."
-- Alfred Lilienthal, What Price Israel, Henry Regnery (1953), p. 222
------------------------------------------------------
Col. John Beaty wrote:
"As time passed, it came about that these Khazar people of mixed non-Russian stock, who hated the Russians and lived under Babylonian Talmudic law, became known in the western world, from their place of residence and their legal-religious code, as Russian Jews."
-- Col. John Beaty, Iron Curtain Over America (1951), p. 20
Tens of thousands of these non-Israelite 'Jews' migrated to America prior to 1880. Millions have come since.
------------------------------------------------------
More recently, Israeli Historian Shlomo Sand wrote, "The Invention of the Jewish People."
Sand wrote, "I don't think that the historical myth of the exile and the wanderings is the source of the legitimization for me being here (in Israel), and therefore I don't mind believing that I am Khazar in my origins. I am not afraid of the undermining of our existence, because I think that the character of the State of Israel undermines it in a much more serious way. What would constitute the basis for our existence here is not mythological historical right, but rather would be for us to start to establish an open society here of all Israeli citizens."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Jewish claims regarding their "biblical" origins are manifest malarkey... but James's explanation needs some further comment.
Because numbers of Jews lived in Spain & Germany it does not follow that a genetic link with the indigenous people exists (for which there is no evidence) any more than the presence of large numbers of Blacks or Asians in America demonstrates a genetic connection between them and the European ethnic majority.
A very germane comment on Jewish origins was made by H. G. Wells, in his "Outline of History":
"There can be little doubt that the scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab tribes that were Jews in the time of Mohammed, and a Turkish people (Khazars) who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic. It is to the Phoenician contingent and to the Aramean accessions in Babylon that the financial and commercial traditions of the Jews is to be ascribed. But as a result of these coalescences and assimilations, almost everywhere in the towns throughout the Roman Empire, and far beyond it in the east, Jewish communities traded and flourished, and were kept in touch through the Bible, and through a religious and educational organization. The main part of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea.
-- H. G. Wells, The Outline of History, Book VI - Christianity and Islam. © 1920,1949
------------------------------------------------------
Prof. Roland B. Dixon, of Harvard, wrote in 1923, "The most important single factor, however, in the differentiation of the Asiatic borderland... was the conversion to Judaism in the eighth century of the Khazars. In these (Khazars)... we may in all probability see the origin of the great mass of the east European Jews of today."
------------------------------------------------------
Arthur Koestler wrote:
"The general picture that emerges from these fragmentary pieces of information is of a migration of Khazar tribes and communities into those regions of Eastern Europe - mainly Russia and Poland- where at the dawn of the Modern Age, the greatest concentrations of Jews were found. This has led several historians to conjecture that a substantial part, and perhaps the majority of eastern Jews - and hence of world Jewry - might be of Khazar and not of Semitic origin."
-- Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe (1976), pp. 15,16
------------------------------------------------------
Alfred Lilienthal wrote:
"That the Khazars are the lineal ancestors of Eastern European Jewry is an historical fact. Jewish historians and religious textbooks acknowledge the fact, though the propagandists of Jewish nationalism belittle it as pro-Arab propaganda."
-- Alfred Lilienthal, What Price Israel, Henry Regnery (1953), p. 222
------------------------------------------------------
Col. John Beaty wrote:
"As time passed, it came about that these Khazar people of mixed non-Russian stock, who hated the Russians and lived under Babylonian Talmudic law, became known in the western world, from their place of residence and their legal-religious code, as Russian Jews."
-- Col. John Beaty, Iron Curtain Over America (1951), p. 20
Tens of thousands of these non-Israelite 'Jews' migrated to America prior to 1880. Millions have come since.
------------------------------------------------------
More recently, Israeli Historian Shlomo Sand wrote, "The Invention of the Jewish People."
Sand wrote, "I don't think that the historical myth of the exile and the wanderings is the source of the legitimization for me being here (in Israel), and therefore I don't mind believing that I am Khazar in my origins. I am not afraid of the undermining of our existence, because I think that the character of the State of Israel undermines it in a much more serious way. What would constitute the basis for our existence here is not mythological historical right, but rather would be for us to start to establish an open society here of all Israeli citizens."
In effect Sand is saying that there is no such thing as a Jewish people.
Sand wrote further: "In the Israeli discourse about roots there is a degree of perversion.
This is an ethnocentric, biological, genetic discourse. But Israel has no existence as a Jewish state: If Israel does not develop and become an open, multicultural society we will have a Kosovo in the Galilee. The consciousness concerning the right to this place must be more flexible and varied, and if I have contributed with my book to the likelihood that I and my children will be able to live with the others here in this country in a more egalitarian situation – I will have done my bit."
-- Shlomo Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (2009)
(Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966952.html)
There may be many questions concerning who the Jewish people are,
but there can be no serious question as to who they are NOT.
- Jack Martin
Sand wrote further: "In the Israeli discourse about roots there is a degree of perversion.
This is an ethnocentric, biological, genetic discourse. But Israel has no existence as a Jewish state: If Israel does not develop and become an open, multicultural society we will have a Kosovo in the Galilee. The consciousness concerning the right to this place must be more flexible and varied, and if I have contributed with my book to the likelihood that I and my children will be able to live with the others here in this country in a more egalitarian situation – I will have done my bit."
-- Shlomo Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (2009)
(Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966952.html)
There may be many questions concerning who the Jewish people are,
but there can be no serious question as to who they are NOT.
- Jack Martin
===============================
Memo:
Actually, the oldest historical claim that Hebrews (as a distinct people) have goes back to about 700 BC or so. Much of their history, like the captivity in Egypt, is a myth. The most ancient Hebrews were just a Bedouin tribe... that is, Arabs. There ia good argument that the first Jews, as Jews, were those who rejected Jesus Christ. It was their hatred that made them a new nation and an example to Christians of a people lost to evil.
The southern Palestinians are in part descendants of the Sea Peoples defeated by Ramses in 1700 BC or 2000 BC, depending on how you count. The balance are the indigenous people of the area.
The Oriental Jews (MIzrahi) are genetically identical to Palestinians, so arguing that Mizrahi or Palestinians are the oldest is useless since they are the same people, more or less. Sephardim are Spaniards (which is the meaning of the word Sephardim) and Ashkenazi are mainly Germans (40% genetically Germans, plus other stuff).
As for the Nakba, if documentation means anything, more Palestinians can be documented to have died in the Nakba than Jews can be documented to have died in Auschwitz.
This source is just a bunch of lies and half truths. Still, thanks for send it. I always read the other side.
James
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